Dax Diameter

As Dallas Austin had played a pivotal role in the development of TLC they trusted his judgement and were all for being steered down that path, however Dallas proved himself to possess a pop sensibility and perceived a European group to be the perfect outlet for that sound. I do find it ironic that they were open to go as far down the R&B route as they envisaged he would take them and HE kept them bang on track with what their international audience wanted. Dr. Luke and Diane Warren have a history of substantial hits on the U.S Billboard Hot 100, which is never a bad thing when actively looking for opportunities to score that illusive breakthrough Hit with potential to crack the U.S market. Like many, I love Sugababes output and I love much of Xenomania’s too, it is therefore not easy (as a music fan) to accept musical snobbery exists and on occasion can act as a barrier between two parties joining forces for the purpose of musical creativity. It’s a sad reality that money can also play a part too and if say, you were a successful songwriter with two consistent revenue sources steadily generating an income stream and those sources (irrespective of each other) slowly became resistant to the fruits of what is primarily your musical labour - then is it ever a good idea to let your money lust tangibly show during studio time with those artists? Is it ever an attractive quality for artists to recognize megalomania in you, watching it replace creativity? And once seen, can the physical display of that desire for cold hard cash ever truly be forgotten..

The only way to explain is to go back to the core rudiments that underpin the group and then go forward. In their own minds, the girls original and primary ambitions revolved around being part of the U.K R&B/ Garage scene that was fertile and riding a wave of success and developing its own flavour in response to the dominant success of U.S R&B music which was a continuing trend throughout the 1990’s. They were in awe to be working with the same team that had launched All Saints (the success of which was happening all around them during that 98-00 period in which they were holed up whilst in pre-launch development in a recording studio) and that was their yardstick as to how ‘Pop’ they were prepared to be, to have chart success. If they purely had it their way, they would have kept within the confines of a Mary J. Blige, En Vogue, Brandy type U.S centric musical flavour - and if it weren’t for All Saints reflecting (in REAL time) the success a U.K based R&B/ Pop hybrid girl band could have (if they only utilized and melded the mainstream tastes of a homegrown U.K domestic audience with their own), then they would NOT have even opened their perceptions of musical genre that much (particularly with the likes of Steps acting as an extreme warning in the background of how abjectly embarrassed and mortifyingly ashamed they would have been to face their school friends if they lost the ability to steer the ship - in context of what a group (that at that time were called ‘Sugababies’) would be expected to sound like musically. Particularly as they simultaneously had a producer insistent they record this, which although a long way from cheese, was still a step too far in terms of their own united perception of what a wrong direction sounded like. Being dropped by London and picked up by Universal Island (aside) - the introduction of Xenomania with 2.0, was a very Mark Hargreaves/ Crown Media & Talent led decision. An individual and organization (all media training aside) Mutya (and particularly Keisha) grew to positively despise for various reasons that Keisha may one day elect to reveal to a greater (or lesser) degree in her autobiography (only SHE truly knows the finer details of what that was specifically about, over how long a period and how it all went down). Xenomania felt like a sausage factory for the girls. (Although Siobhan is irrelevant to this period) - it is true first impressions last and each of 1.0 had been conditioned and shaped by their initial introduction to the music industry and the creative freedom/ atmosphere/ musical expression the girls had been afforded under the watchful presence of Ron Tom/ Cameron McVey (Mabel’s father), whilst in development at their first label (London). Contrast this to a production collective, with little to no R&B influence who sends the girls into separate rooms to write a ‘verse’ over a very Pop based melody, with zero perception of how the overall production will sound, or even where (within the construct of a song), their verse will appear. Add to that, being told your writing has been nixed from the song you thought you were writing for, yet added to a completely separate one you had no idea was being constructed under your name and oh by the way, the tempo is not going to be what you thought it was either and a couple of your lines have been lifted from the verse and moved directly into the chorus and then being told by your manager that this OTHER song (that you did not know anything about prior to that same meeting) has shaped up well, is going to be a single and you have not yet heard the final mix yet though the new title is up for debate but you can help with that (out of several key options) in an effort to convince you - you have been in creative control all along. Imagine dealing effectively with the mind that co-ordinates that entire process (for almost every individual song) and expecting a satisfactory response whilst you feel the creative freedom (you once had), slip further and further from your grasp as you hear your double tracked vocals on a song you don’t actually recognize by way of a writing credit that ensures your cut. Would you feel happy simply to know you’ve got your percentage or would you prefer the more hands on creative experience of working with other writers? .. As a fan, of course I would like them to work with (circa 2003) Xenomania, but from the perspective of an artist I can also see why they may not. It’s an ironic historic truth of the wider music industry (as a whole), that very often the best pop music is generated by the creative friction between two opposing forces, which together, generates goosebump inducing results but ultimately never leaves either party remembering the actual symbiotic creative process as a positive experience. I feel it’s only fitting to cite the track “Ace Reject” as a key example of an Xenomania production that to the fans is a hidden gem that stood out as something special from the first listen - but to the group was a track they initially never even liked or appreciated (and if it were not for those around them would not have even made the cut for the fourth album).

In days gone by, I would have said the same about Xenomania and they would have been at the top of my list. However on the basis of the three Cutebad singles (the latest Xenomania produced Girl Group aiming for mainstream success), it does appear that Xenomania have gone off the boil somewhat, with none of those singles commercially performing to the expectations of anyone connected to to that team. it’s been rumoured Mutya never showed up to the MKS Xenomania session because (at that time) she did not want to work with them but got outvoted on that so instead resorted to asserting her will by electing to simply not show up for the session secure in the knowledge nothing from it could ultimately be used without her vocals. It has long been speculated this is why Carla Marie Williams sings on lead vocals with Siobhan and Keisha (on the track “Waiting for You”) that was born from that session. However, the track remains an interesting curio as it was/ is the only song in Sugababes/ MKS existence to offer an insight into how Siobhan’s vocals sound over an Xenomania production and somewhat interestingly she shines on it. It never crossed my mind that list of who produced what, is not well known as I felt there was a real possibility @metalsnake25 (at least) may have been able to flesh it out and fill in the blanks.

You really ought to be more appreciative of what @jamesmax has given us.

It never, the Klas Ahlund Re-work was never released (and never leaked) in HQ unless someone has vaulted it. Unfortunately so much (not all) of that ‘enhanced CD’ era, where record labels would offer bonus content and hidden links to downloads via the CD (when placed in a pc), occurred during an era when people’s expectations of what constituted HQ - were so much lower & that track was in many ways indicative of that era. It was also a strange one in the sense that from the moment literally anyone downloaded the Klas Ahlund Re-work via the “Catfights & Spotlights” CD, it was seemingly universally praised as the superior version of the song (something that almost never happens). As a side issue, I am annoyed with a certain individual (you know who you are) of the Bebo generation, who has been in a position to attain coveted unreleased music at least twice, who was offered various things (not appreciating those twin moments of luck) and stupidly turned them down, because the individual in question simply did not understand lossless (non MP3 music formats, or even how to play them) and to this day remains so backwards as to still not understand what ‘uncompressed’ formats are and STILL believes anything that’s not MP3/ M4A is not even a valid file type!

If anyone has additional updated (missing) information pertaining to the writers/ producers of these MKS tracks, can they please update the below rough list & re-post: Also, did the “Too in Love” instrumental ever leak ? Arrow (shaznay) Ate me up Back in the day (mojam) Back to life (ed drewett) Be kind (emeli sande) Beat is gone (biffco, wayne hector,) Boys (biffco, MNEK) Break my heart (oscar scheller) Breathe me (dan carey (?)) Burnt out (tom aspaul) Bye bye (katy b) Calling out to you Champagne & roses (mr hudson) Crazy things (demo for MKS) Diamonds (biffco, emma rohan) Drum (biffco, mnek) Enough (biffco, shaznay) Entertainment Fall from grace (katy b) Flashing lights (karen poole) Flatline (dev hynes) Fly on the wall Forever ready (sia) Garage flowers (oh wonder) Great escape (oakenfold, diane warren) I lay down (cameron mcvey) I'm alright (biffco) Kiss me tonight (diane warren) Lay down in swimming pools Light up (james new, josef page) Love in stereo (richard x, hannah robinson) Love me hard (biffco) Metal heart (cameron mcvey) No regrets ( naughty boy) Only you (biffco, shaznay) Open book (dallas austin) Paradise (oh wonder) Pillow talk (katy b) Recover 1 Recover 2 (jim elliot) Romantic call (MNEK) Say goodbye (tom aspaul) Summer of 99 (james elliot) Take the wheel and drive (dev hynes) Today (mnek) Too in love (mojam) TSOB 1 woz (katy b) Two can play that game Up in flames (karen poole) Victory (jason evigan, mitchell scherr, sia) Waiting for you (xenomania) Why did the lights come on Why oh why (cameron mcvey, oscar scheller) Your love (naughty boy)

The U.K. didn’t particularly like it, in fact if memory serves it was the first lead single from a brand new Sugababes studio album that never peaked at No. 1 (since “Overload”). For weeks before it’s official release, it was rammed down the viewing publics throat during most television commercial breaks in support of a “Boots” the chemist campaign (a drug store that everyone in the U.K. knows). ”Girls” was boring to seemingly everyone from the word go. Yet, when a LQ mp3 link to the Klas Ahlund Rework came as part of a multimedia component of the “Catfights & Spotlights” album, literally everyone (including myself) seemed to prefer it. It’s a shame it’s never appeared anywhere in HQ.

Aside from wiki pages casting a light on the work history (and associated acts), the other writers have worked with in the past.. not much. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steve_Chrisanthou https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Beck_(songwriter) One of the writers (John Beck) co-wrote this, which was a major No. 1 hit 30 years ago: And both wrote this, some years later: Neither track strikes me as being in the same specific genre (the first being soft rock in origin, the later being inflected by old school soul).

I don’t believe for a second she wrote it alone and whilst I suspect Naughty Boy may be a co-writer as she had obviously worked with him previously and he has writing credits on some MKS songs that did leak (including the supposed album title track “No Regrets!”), I don’t automatically assume it to be a foregone conclusion that he (or MNEK) definitely assisted her in penning the track or that it’s even limited to two co-writers. I would not be surprised if Diane Warren had a hand in penning the track, even though she apparently co-wrote a couple of the tracks that did leak, neither of those appear to share a credit with Sande. However based on what I’ve heard about “Love Like This”, it suggests (at least to me) that it may be in a style most typically associated with past Diane Warren productions. As time goes on, I do take issue with “Love Like This” not leaving a trail of breadcrumbs in quite the same way “King of London” has (also known to be part of the wider recording sessions), with evidence of it being registered to a publisher. https://iswcnet.cisac.org You may have heard of yet another supposed unreleased/ un-leaked MKS title “You Make It Happen”, but I suspect that one is purely a fan fiction and myth inspired by a similarly titled unreleased Spice Girls (“Spice” era) cast-off titled “We’re Gonna Make It Happen” - though I’m happy to be proven wrong.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-2092448/Sugababes-WILL-reform-says-Emeli-Sand-lets-slip-writing-songs-original-line-up.html We haven’t heard it, though back when the above story broke in 2012, there was a rumour that lyrically it concerned bonds forged in childhood, weather beaten by a storm (as opposed to being about a lover) and it had a gospel choir on it. I recall a random popping up somewhere saying when we hear it “there won’t be a dry eye left in the house”.. and then absolutely nothing until the Emeli “snatch back” story a year later. At one point I got fed up waiting and started asking around, adding how odd it was her version had never appeared on any of her intervening solo albums. What piqued my interest was back in 2014, I heard that after she took it back - she re-recorded it with additional vocal embellishments that she never originally envisaged even had the potential to be on it, vocal melisma she had subsequently picked up and learned from the MKS version, so had gone back to the studio with it and given it another crack. I subsequently anticipated it would make the cut of her second album and was totally mystified when it did not. This re-ignited my curiosity as to what had happened so I started asking around afresh and at that point it was suggested to me it had been ‘bought’ by representatives of a never fully launched artist (who after the purchase) proceeded to get stuck in an artistic development, A&R clash, groundhog day limbo of nightmare proportions. I enquired further and after a while it was inferred to me the matter had since cooled off a little and the artist in question’s name was Raye and “Love Like This” had at one point been in consideration for a specific iteration of an album she had been working on but never made the final cut when the overall tone of that project headed in an entirely different direction.

Yes, word on the street was “Love Like This” was intended to be the first single from the album. It supposedly demonstrated where the musical DNA of the group unmistakably lay. The executive who signed them to Polydor essentially left Polydor three quarters of the way through production of the album (having been offered more attractive employment terms elsewhere). It was this same individual who had the creative vision not only for the group (but for the album direction itself). After this individual abruptly left, their replacement had priorities and passion projects of their own (and unfortunately those did not include MKS). The executive who had been the driving force behind the MKS project had been with Polydor for some time (they were the key driving force behind the signing and launch of Emeli Sande and also instrumental in the development of the marketing strategy that resulted in the sales units generated by her debut album). That experience transformed her life and she understandably had complete faith in that specific individual, whom (at a certain point in time prior to that individual’s departure) - had liaised with her (taking the role of ‘go-between’ both camps) arranging for her to get on board the MKS project - so when that executive left Polydor (for career advancement), there was no-one with a specific passion for MKS, to take the reigns and direct that project. You may conclude that cannot be the case as Polydor did such a good job with Girls Aloud (however they had also been signed to Fascination under direction of Peter Lorraine) and MKS never were. Suffice, with the executive who signed MKS gone - Emeli got cold feet and took the money track back again - thus necessitating additional recording sessions for the group (including Dev Hynes), in order to find a replacement lead track that matched the apparent “Magic” of “Love Like This”. However, Magic is not something that can typically be created out of simply having a desire to attain it. It requires a certain degree of artistic inspiration and hence “Flatline” was born. Polydor were not convinced by the merits of “Flatline” (the same Polydor who more recently let go of Jesy Nelson). With “Love Like This” gone, Polydor then wanted to launch with a different tempo and stylistic shift in the form of “Boys”, but the girls were united in not wanting to launch with it as the first single. It was only because of united pressure from the girls (who were determined to do things their own way) that Polydor very reluctantly agreed to “Flatline”. They did not believe “Flatline” was the correct commercial choice and when it flopped, they then put the girls on ice. They were at that point in time interested in chasing ‘artistic integrity’ and dismissive of any other, more commercial options Polydor suggested. A while later an assistant (supporting a certain popular U.K. dance artist) was supposedly spending a portion of time in the Polydor building - helping that artist with a few things and a while later some leaks happened. Though both circumstances (are in all likelihood) completely unrelated of course.

What’s not controversial to say is “Be Kind” was also an Emeli Sande track and was submitted along with “Love Like This”, yet “Be Kind” made it out. Also the album was never at any point ever going to share the same name as the tour. Such a shame nothing ever leaked in lossless.

Agreed, in comparison the hooks just aren’t even there. Which makes it easier to understand why Island went with “Freak”.

Any Sugababes singles ranking that does NOT automatically place “In The Middle” at No. 27 by default, is automatically invalid (in my view) 😂

What happened was one of the A&R team at Island socialised at underground dance clubs in London. As a consequence of his social life spent in attendance at these underground clubs, he became aware of this specific mashup getting heavy rotation by the capital’s coolest DJ’s: As a result, Island wanted their new act (Sugababes) to get on the track and researched the producer behind it. Island believed that an edit - in conjunction to a promo campaign (fronted by their new signing) would push the track (and by association their act) - above the underground club scene and propel it into the mainstream pop charts: However, at the specific point in time when Island reached out to the track’s producer (Virgin signing Richard X) - unbeknown to Island, Richard was working on his own album: https://www.discogs.com/master/6901-Richard-X-Presents-His-X-Factor-Vol-1 Richard had been inspired to create other mashups for it and was pissed off because after reaching out to U.S. R&B singer Adina Howard and attempting to convince her to come over to the U.K. to promote his mashup of her old track “Freak Like Me” (that sampled Gary Newman’s “Are Friends Electric”) - she had turned him down as she was not keen to promote (what was to her) a seven year old single she made on a (by that time) former label she had long since discovered was withholding royalties from her. At the point Island contacted Richard (via Virgin), Richard was more interested in finding a way to circumvent Adina Howard, whilst still getting a chart hit with her track. It would have gone to his faceless studio vocalist “Girls on Top”, if Island had not coincidentally came calling at what transpired to be an opportune moment in time (for both parties). Richard told Island that if they agreed for their new signing (Sugababes), to take the place of Adina Howard on HER track that he wanted on HIS album - that he (in exchange), would agree to produce the Whitney mash-up for Sugababes. However, when Island A&R team heard the results of Richard’s recording session with Sugababes - they knew in an instant they were listening to a potential hit that stood head & shoulders above their own original single choice (the Whitney mashup) and with a bit of finessing (in the remix department) - it stood a higher degree of being one. It occasionally gets suggested the unused Whitney mashup (with Sugababes on vocals) may well be in the Virgin vaults (somewhere Sugababes were never signed to - but Richard was). Either way, in the aftermath of the unexpected level of success generated by “Freak Like Me”, Richard’s album was reconfigured as Virgin then realised they had missed a trick and if they had instead been on the ball - would have got their own signing (Liberty X), to vocal the track and have a hit with it instead. Obviously Richard was Hot shit at that point and not to be outdone, Virgin eventually sold the idea to Liberty X’s management of getting them on board Richard’s album - on what was to be the follow up single (a concept not considered by either party until after “Freak Like Me” had already been a hit). London records were the ultimate losers though, as their A&R never understood or found acceptable the concept of Sugababes shifting that far away from the R&B genre - so when London A&R team were confronted with the realisation that a group THEY were convinced were destined to flop and had no future, were suddenly No. 1 in the charts (followed by yet another No. 1 single and then a hit album) - they did not take it too well and quickly came to regret the decision to prematurely release Sugababes from their deal with them.

I don’t believe they had many actual writing credits, my understanding is it was more a case of them being enthused by finding their feet together in the studio, recording together at length as a collective unit for the first time and getting to have a say over the allocation of key vocal parts/ harmonies (something that had already been pre-decided on “Sweet 7”). Aside from their recording of “Santa Baby” - that iteration of the group had not been afforded any real opportunity to make decisions organically between themselves prior to that point as Jade had previously recorded her parts on “Sweet 7”, to the accompaniment of the already pre-recorded vocal stems of the other two (without them having been present in the studio). Also, though it rarely (if ever) gets mentioned, on the set of the “About A Girl” video, Jade was syncing to Keisha’s vocal of the track (as Jade had not actually recorded the song at that point), which left Jade with zero room to vocally maneuver her own interpretation of those solo lines when she later recorded the track back in London as it was made implicit to her that her studio vocal had to visually match her lip movements of the already shot video footage.

You do appear to be on the right lines with this and I have heard that some StarGate productions were on the rejects CDr. You may very well be correct regarding that above “Firefly” composition - however there is also a part of me with a curiosity about an unreleased Bonnie McKee pitch track (with a very similar title) and precisely in whose hands it may have ended up. I suspect “Tetris” may be from the sessions - for what was originally intended to be THAT lineup’s follow up to “Sweet 7”. By that point they had signed to RCA/ Sony (and no longer a concern of Roc Nation). At RCA they were facing reduced budgetary circumstances and various tracks were produced by The Invisible Men who were working on the cheap (due to their also association with Crown). Supposedly those writing sessions unexpectedly flowed more easily than anyone anticipated and what was produced from THOSE sessions casts the entire “Sweet 7” (final Island era) album - firmly into the shadows. Understandably however, no-one has ever really been particularly interested in shining a light on that specific corner due to the (then) far more interesting developments (not too long after), that began to instead divert peoples attention regarding a reunion of the original lineup (and everything that later stemmed from that separate situation).

Thanks for confirming.

Does anyone know, was the already leaked track “What’s it Gonna Take” produced by RedOne ? Or what year it originated from?

Not sure I necessarily share your views on “No More You”, however when the MSN Live/ duo performance dropped, there were enough fans (myself included) who were blown away by Keisha’s soulful vocals particularly on the “ooh-wo-wo-no-no” parts and for me (and other fans of the MSN Live/ duo version of the song), we became obsessed with the notion of how elevated that vocal part (at the time we were convinced HAD to be sang by Keisha) - would sound on the studio recording. It later transpired of course that in the studio version (with all three on vocals) that vocal part had actually gone to Amelle (though at the time no-one knew) and it didn’t hit the mark in quite the same way. It also happened to be a studio recording omitted from the album sampler that we HAD to hear and ultimately did (even though that version in the end didn’t quite live up to expectations).

The individual who leaked Keisha’s version of “No More You” (not a track featured on the “Sweet 7” album sampler) supposedly has it (and potentially more) too. By potentially more, I mean the incorrect CDr of rejects Jade was initially mistakenly given to learn vocals for the “Sweet 7” album (and who potentially had access to the Island archive at one point).. the individual that is, not Jade.

Any word on “Firefly” or “Lincoln Continental” of late?

Thank You.

Thank You.