Dax Diameter

Do not role play in the alpha male role with me cretin! Get a manual labouring job before you even pass the standard! You are not even equipped enough in the language you are debating in to address the consequences of the points you made.

And I will tell you again, Mutya is an autonomous individual who is free to make any choice pertaining to her own body! The fact that you even went there and tried to instigate a debate poking fun at her physical appearance is deplorable and only speaks to the corporate and regimented standard you hold yourself to as directly influenced by your very own occupation which is clearly at the core of your judgements pertaining to Mutya! You embarrass the entire male species!

You need to sit your ass down and can the threats! You are the one who is judgemental about Mutya’s looks! How dare you judge a woman on her physical appearance! That post contains no language that is controversial in tone! You continue to argue your very wrong point (in two threads) for no other reason than to satiate your own ego. You won’t see that you are morally wrong and won’t address why you saw fit to dredge up tired old narratives from the past. You are an embarrassment!

You came in like a bull in a china shop and turned a discussion primarily focused on music leaks - wholly toxic by crassly commenting on Mutya’s physical appearance. Something that is a very old, worn out and exceptionally stale subject. When Sugababes released the song “Ugly” back in 2005, the debate that surrounded the point they were then making lyrically was to shine a light on the insecurities they as a group (but primarily Mutya) were facing as a result of irresponsible, superficial journalism and certain sub-sections of online trolls from a growing (but less refined version of the) internet, as we know it today. As fans, most of us learned 17 years ago when “Ugly” was released (and from the debates it sparked), that Mutya’s psychological relationship with her own physical appearance was (and remains) a highly sensitive subject for her that directly impacts upon her mental health. Over the intervening years the public have watched the criticisms Mutya has faced over her personal appearance, lead her directly into a cycle of behaviour that has resulted in multiple trips not only to the stringently regulated surgeons of Harley Street in London (but also to the less regulated equivalent surgeons in Turkey, where all manner of budget plastic surgery procedures are carried out on the cheap), whenever the Surgeons in Harley Street say “No”. The cycle of sporadic upsurges in trolling behaviour directed at Mutya over the years, followed by stories of her seeking yet another procedure in order to “correct” the perceived faults in her appearance that online trolls draw attention to, has been ongoing for many years now. It therefore does not take a genius to work out that Mutya’s relationship with her own mental health is fragile at best. In context of that long running background narrative, what kind of fool then makes a choice to open up that can of worms again and go to that place? (As if it’s a fresh subject and drawing attention to her physicality, in a relative moment of calm in her life where it looks the trolls are giving her a break and her confidence is in the ascendant)? I am absolutely not going to sit back and NOT challenge you on that regressive view and I absolutely AM going to wonder what kind of rock you have been living under for almost two decades, whereby you appear totally ignorant to Mutya’s history and (with relish) want to drag her back into that same very stale narrative all over again. Nobody cares about your opinion on the “natural look” and how you personally perceive that as a default aesthetic template for how all women should look (and want to aspire to). Mutya (as we all do) has autonomy over her own body and she has expressed numerous times how she believes in an individual’s right to choose and that is the beginning, middle and end of that story. We are here to discuss Sugababes, Nobody is interested in you or the aesthetic belief systems of your own personal circle of female friends. Likewise, it is no-one’s problem that English is clearly not your first language and you are obviously unable to communicate using it with clarity in a non toxic and non regressive way. We had a sense of camaraderie on this thread until you gate crashed it. You have not only shown your ass here in the Sugababes thread (in context of re-igniting a years old narrative surrounding Mutya), but you have also embarrassed yourself on a Madonna one of your own creation where several individuals have pointed out to you that you are downright wrong with regard to your views there also! You clearly have an ego problem that prevents you from stepping up to the plate and apologising when you are wrong. However that (again), is indicative of a wider issue pertaining to your own personality and how you choose to conduct yourself on this platform. Also, I don’t appreciate being condescended to and being called “kid” by someone years younger than me who is clearly about as in touch with developments in pop culture as Donald Trump!

Yesterday’s Breakfast TV Promo Segment for September’s 02 Concert.

It sounds a little too Rn’B to sit alongside anything from the “Change” era. I kinda hear why it got canned.

Total idiot. Madonna fans are ‘leak literate’, know how to work a pc and are still interested in her work. How dare you pigeon hole her fans into some box.

You came in with your hot-take on Mutya’s physical appearance, assuming we would fall in line and shame ourselves by engaging in a mass Mutya ‘pile on’.. well that shit ain’t happening! You don’t know what insecurities Mutya has (those in her circle and real fans have known for years) and have consciously and intentionally sought NOT to open that can of worms and to protect her from the harsh realities of social media. This is how she chooses to process them (her insecurities). It is directly because of Mutya’s long history (with people like you) on social media, in conjunction to her insecurities that has led her directly to the surgeons office so many times in her life (this is not news to any long term fan). Most people believe in an individual’s right to choose what is right for them. You can believe what you want when it comes to autonomy over your own body, but do not dare dictate your misogynistic and egotistical views over someone as genuinely fragile and vulnerable as Mutya for something as cheap and low down as a kii ! You obviously never got the memo about women of colour and gay men (which pop forums are full of) sharing the same societal enemies. So don’t now spit the dummy out the pram and cosplay at being the adult in the room, nobody is dumb enough to fall for it!

She looks fine. I honestly don’t know what backwards part of the planet you are from, but in many places it’s no longer considered normal for a man to openly judge a woman based on her appearance in 2022 (and has not been for years now). Next you will be coming for Kim Petra’s for being trans.

Utter rubbish, they weren’t all produced by him either. He’s dead, Madonna lives on, and so do her “adult” fans.

Note to self: I imagined every leak of Madonna’s career, in-particular every Avicii produced track for “Rebel Heart” and the internet’s reaction to them.

She’s had her lips done, but it’s Mutya and she has a certain history.. the destination of that topic is not a place our future selves would thank us for going down. Along with Dusty Springfield, she genuinely possesses one of the finest, undisputed, home grown female voices the U.K. has ever produced and for that reason her place in music history is already recognised and assured.

My relationship with Madonna is always going to be love/ hate (but ultimately love), because to take her message seriously is to be forced to analyse parts of yourself that wider society (at one time or another) has considered taboo and attempted to cast shame over. We can’t all insulate ourselves in an enlightened utopia surrounded by cosmopolitan creatives and simply switch the unenlightened ‘off’ whenever we want (like Madonna can). To live in the real world is to be forced to interact with other peoples prejudicial views, sanctimony and messed up social conditioning (out with the construct of sit down media interactions and social media). Madonna has achieved many things in her life and has pushed the narrative forward and used her platform in many positive ways that today benefits many marginalised societal groups in ways thought of as unforeseen only a generation ago. I don’t know if the fortuitous (yet accidental) discovery by her A&R of an already written track, (not created with her in mind), “Like a Virgin” in conjunction to the enforced 1985 “Playboy” exposure of that former, naked, brunette, dance student from 1978 (a year after LAV Hit) - ultimately led to the taboo expressions of sadomasochism inherent in the “Erotica” era (though I suspect it did). Is it selfish of me to NOT want to see Madonna basically re-inact the “Erotica” era, 30 years after she did it the first time? I think it’s fantastic that she clicks her fingers and still has instant access to 20 something dick as a result of her visual manifestation of an outwardly sexual image - decades after society saying she should not be doing that. Screw the patriarchy, screw gammons and screw mysogynist’s. I’m merely saying I have a right to NOT pretend I’m watching her pull the same moves for the first time. By volition of her being Madonna, I expect her to come up with something new (not recycle the same old ‘go to’ tropes of the past). Each generation needs that defining risqué artist who pushes the envelope forward and reflects the lifestyle values of a generation. In a modern setting (for example), Is Taylor Swift really that person for now? She appears to represent an entire generation but she also appears constricted, she can’t truly do anything with a “Wow” factor for fear of losing the right wing redneck portion of her fanbase in the U.S. southern states, where the genre of Music (“Country”), that brought her to fame, actually originates from. Madonna brought many things to the table, she is a true innovator and culturally, western society is definitely in a more enlightened place than it otherwise would have been if she had not existed but in terms of being a “blue print” (within the framework of pop culture), I’m not convinced. Since she entered the industry, she has always spoke of how influential Debbie Harry and Marilyn Monroe were on her psyche (and without taking anything away from Madonna), I put forth the case she was (through hard work and determination) in many ways destined to continue that evolutionary lineage of the blonde, pop cultural, archetype (in the same way that Lady Gaga) also now follows in line, which in itself is quite an achievement as many in the history of the entertainment industry would like to attain that position (yet between the actual dawn of pop culture and the present) so very few actually have.

“Do you think this is the best lineup then”? I don’t think Keisha was ever this publicly unguarded as she was here from 3 mins, 30 secs on (much to Amelle’s increasing discomfort). Also interesting to hear her mention Siobhan (by name) as late as 2008.

This one off, stand alone concert only makes sense in context of it being a launch platform for an album. Never at any point have they performed any ‘new’ material (the exception being “Flowers”), that was not going to be on the original album. On the basis Polydor have a 10 year license over the original album, pretty much anything old that the group wish to carry forward on a revamped 2023 version, would become legally possible that month (September), as it’s exactly 10 years after “Flatline”. I suspect we will get two or three actual new tracks worked into the 2023 track listing. I wouldn’t be surprised if appears on any Warner affiliated imprint.

If anyone has the original image in HQ (with the grey background) please upload.

Yes, I believe she did. The full version and an alternate version of “Romantic Call” were apparently being exchanged on Soulseek (in 2020). They were perceived (then) as having value amongst certain traders. As it’s now almost 2023 I am surprised they have yet to leak fully and still appear to be in limited circulation. (Particularly as nothing indicates they are better than the versions we already have).

Whilst that tomfoolery quietly peculates in the background, does anyone have the alternate RnB version of “Only You”? (apparently MKS experimented by taking it to Larrance Dopson, who produced a second version). He may also have been responsible for a later version of “Romantic Call” (different from the one that leaked). Apparently both were circulating on Soul Seek at one point, though the RnB version of “Only You” was ultimately rejected (and the backing track later re-purposed on the track “Boo’d Up” by Ella Mai). Also does anyone have the Siobhan solo tracks “When Silence Breaks” and “Cold Calculation” (from the “Ghosts” sessions) to share? Some people apparently have them both.

I don’t think she’s gone mad but I do think she has always had a terminal need for attention that was previously tempered by the work demands on her schedule. It appears that because she is older (and with no radio play) she has much less outside work demands and is trying to overcompensate via other means, unlike in days gone by where media companies would come to her for content/ interviews/ exclusives etc, nowadays she’s simply no longer a hot brand and no-one is buying. if she wasn’t generating her own content on her socials she wouldn’t have any coverage at all. I think she is trying to embrace a punk ethos and value but to be honest, as a long term fan, every action she takes now looks superficial/ clout chasing and I’m over it. I look at her approved images on her IG and none of them even look real. I trace her questionable choices right back to the “Hard Candy” album, where for the first time her sonic direction (and association with Timbaland) felt like something that had already came into (and already gone out of) fashion. Totally separately to this, Lady Gaga launched around that same time and speaking as someone who has followed Madonna from the beginning and watched so many other female singers try (and fail) to take her position in pop culture, it became undeniable to me (even as a long term Madonna Stan) that Lady Gaga was finally the one who had that same flavour of charisma and was fated to take her crown. Madonna was successfully able to read the zeitgeist and stay on top of it for a considerable period of time longer than almost all her contemporaries in popular culture but ultimately with the dawn of the “Hard Candy” era, it became apparent her reign was over and she had been usurped. However, if only she had a back to basics approach and made it her life’s mission (in the present) to identify her core brand and make a really good (most likely) pop/ dance album she could maybe win me back over and remind me of why she took pop culture to a whole other level in the first place.

I’m pretty convinced one individual here on PHF has them and though they log in regularly they have never actually posted in this thread, seemingly preferring to observe. Whilst I am tempted to out them, ultimately I don’t think it’s tactful and merely hope they one day have a change of heart and mend the error of their ways.

Keisha’s latest vlog:

There is another preferable version containing all 60+ MKS tracks (including the Google+ sessions) that has been fully volume levelled and sonically EQ’d (equalised) done about 18 months ago by someone known as “Evan R” (on Facebook) and “Evan749” (on Popjustice). He is a moderator of the wholly MKS myopic Facebook group where many of the leaks originally went through. However even junior members in that wider Facebook group are not aware the digital remaster exists (as it was only shared in a smaller invite only Facebook group chat) within the larger group. I do not have it but I’m sure I’m not the only person who would like to. A few months ago one of the members had a YouTube channel called “Pop Anthology” that had meticulously uploaded about 70% of the digitally remastered versions. The comments were full of people who had noticed the improvements in audio quality (which the uploader completely ignored), however they suddenly got taken down and that particular YouTube channel does not appear to exist anymore. The individuals in the inner sanctum of ‘that Facebook group’ (as it is sometimes referred to) will not admit the digital remaster even exists and will hardcore gaslight anyone not in their inner sanctum who discovers otherwise. They instead attempt to throw people of the scent by saying “only a few were done” but it’s not true. They absolutely will not share them and there is nothing they will not do to stop them from getting beyond the inner sanctum of ‘that Facebook group’. Years ago they enjoyed a sense of temporary exclusivity over the leaks (whilst they were still leaking) and by keeping the digital remaster to themselves they get to prolong that sense of exclusivity and feel like a special ‘elite’ group of fans. Their problem is, they are completely inept when it comes to sequencing the unused tracks, (let alone how many volumes to assemble them in), they believe they simply “don’t fit together” as an old non numeric, alphabetic, un-split song-list posted on Popjustice almost a decade ago remains their guide to everything (as they never realised the individual who posted the original list removed all numerical metadata prefixes prior to posting then placed almost everything into only one folder). They believed that in remastering all the tracks using specialist software - that process would reveal hidden sonic layers in the songs and make up for their inability to find the master sequences and as such will never truly be able to enjoy the tracks as they incorrectly assumed the remastering process was key to unlocking sonic Easter eggs the tracks contain (when in actual fact remastering is only one significant yet small part of a wider whole). They made this video to “Overload” a couple of years ago with the intention of it going viral, (it didn’t happen).

Not sure what you mean as the only version hardcore myopic Sugababes stans want us to know about (and be distracted by) is linked to in the below thread (that you have posted under) and are therefore already aware of?

That was the album as of late August 2013. Almost a year previously Sony had messed up by not taking advantage of the momentum generated behind Amelia Lily’s debut single (this had been noted by industry). Sony had waited, her subsequent singles flopped and they came to regret not having her album primed and scheduled when her initial single was Hot. Across town, Polydor believed it was not even possible that the lead track from a new studio album from Sugababes (in all but name), would do anything other than hit Top 5, off the back of that Alan Carr “Chatty Man”, “Flatline” performance. The abject failure of it in missing the Top 40 completely was simply not something considered to be even remotely possible. The shock of that chart reveal sent many experienced industry professionals in to a complete tailspin. Polydor executives panicked and within that panic fractures of opinion and miscommunication occurred between different departments, with each one internally blaming the other for the MKS project failure and placing the entire project rollout into complete free fall. Those in Promotions, who were the interactive point in the company structure whom the girls (at that stage) liaised directly with - were in possession of previous data pertaining to an obsolete draft of the album rollout strategy regarding a Spring 2014 rollout of the initial, standard edition of the album. It should be noted Promotions were not aware of or informed that the reason the album moved was in direct consequence of “Flatline” being brought forward in the release schedule. However, it had already been decided in direct communication between Polydor A&R (and a higher ranking executive who ultimately has the final say on the green lighting of and subsequent release date of product) - that as soon as “Flatline” made Top 5, the release date of the first, standard iteration of the album would be brought forward from the Spring of 2014, as profit levels that atypically pertain to album sales in the fourth quarter (off the back of a hit single), were too tempting to pass up on! It was was anticipated that once “Flatline” smashed, this would be an opportunity for decision makers at executive level in Polydor to learn from strategic errors observed previously by rivals Sony in an Amelia Lily ‘Pop’ rollout almost a year before (this time having the album primed and ‘good-to-go’ whilst the lead single was still relatively Hot and still fresh in people’s minds). Nothing was actually worth filtering down to the girls until singles chart data was received. Data that (in the end) was so far of the mark of what anyone involved in the MKS project even anticipated as a worst case scenario (which was a Top 20). Hence the project entering free fall and all plans being delayed until after more unanticipated studio sessions could be scheduled to take place. There was no advance warning, ‘mid-week’, figures in this specific case which made the final chart position all the more shocking! As I explained previously sometimes a publishing “hold” by an outside writer, on an unused/ withheld track will be stipulated to expire if the context the track in question was intended to be used in becomes no longer viable as soon as that becomes clear. “Too In Love” was a song where the contractual “hold” expired as soon as a decision was taken to put the album back into development (which was an automatic inevitability after the “Flatline” chart reveal of Sept 8th). Mojam were legally entitled to present Sony with the “Too In Love” backing track during the third week of September and James Arthur’s re-version “Get Down” was complete by the end of November. Sony also had a vested interest in dismantling and clawing whatever component parts they could from the MKS project as they had previously paid out and lost big when they mistakenly believed the keys to the future lay with HAJ and Crown. If you want to blame someone, blame Emeli Sande for her initial decision to take the intended lead track back causing the whole project to go out of sync and in doing so causing a ripple effect that negatively impacted on the rest of the project rollout, a stupid selfish decision that in the end caused so many years of heartache and frustration for everyone else involved!